ABS "Heated" Layer fan for large prints **IDEA**

[SuperDave42]

I've been reading a lot about Effector fans lately. ( Researching before I purchase the Rostock Max)

I understand about the "Peek Fan " for Hotends with Peek material
I understand PLA likes to have a layer fan and ABS does not.

I understand ABS likes to have a heated bed to keep the part warm as it builds up.
I understand that Larger ABS prints can suffere in a non enclosed build chamber onece the layers get high enough the bed temps do not propagate further.

IDEA ( I did search use the search tool first. I swear) I am unsure if this is the correct place to post this idea.

What about adding a "Heated Layer Fan" (HLF) ??
Maybe you build an entire HLF effector assembly to use only when you need it ( simple with the mag ball mod and connectors for the effector accesories )

This heated fan setup could be build similar to DIY hot air solder re-work stations. could probably do a PID temp control on the heated air exhaust as well.

I'm wondering if this would help to keep large ABS parts warm as they get taller. I suppose a fancy high temp air duct could be printed to flow the air nicely around the layers.

What would be a good temperature range for the air ?

is this a stupid idea ? ( I know having an enclosed chamber helps dramatically with larger ABS prints )

Dave

[Jimustanguitar]

I think a lot of the problems that people see with layers coming unstuck from the bed are related to uneven heating of the bed. The bed does vary a few degrees from center to perimeter.

Also, the thermistor is right in the middle, so almost every part will print a solid layer over that very spot, usually at a slower than a normal print speed too, and it causes a false temp reading because of all of the localized heat from the slow moving 200+ deg effector. The bed heat will turn off and begin to cool. When that part of the glass does cool down, the rest of the bed is probably 5-10c cooler and takes a long time to catch back up. Viola, warping.

I haven't done this yet, but I would definitely get an aluminum or copper build plate.

[Eaglezsoar]

I've been reading a lot about Effector fans lately. ( Researching before I purchase the Rostock Max)

I understand about the "Peek Fan " for Hotends with Peek material
I understand PLA likes to have a layer fan and ABS does not.

I understand ABS likes to have a heated bed to keep the part warm as it builds up.
I understand that Larger ABS prints can suffere in a non enclosed build chamber onece the layers get high enough the bed temps do not propagate further.

IDEA ( I did search use the search tool first. I swear) I am unsure if this is the correct place to post this idea.

What about adding a "Heated Layer Fan" (HLF) ??
Maybe you build an entire HLF effector assembly to use only when you need it ( simple with the mag ball mod and connectors for the effector accesories )

This heated fan setup could be build similar to DIY hot air solder re-work stations. could probably do a PID temp control on the heated air exhaust as well.

I'm wondering if this would help to keep large ABS parts warm as they get taller. I suppose a fancy high temp air duct could be printed to flow the air nicely around the layers.

What would be a good temperature range for the air ?

is this a stupid idea ? ( I know having an enclosed chamber helps dramatically with larger ABS prints )

Dave

I don't think it is a stupid idea at all and many of us would like to use such a heated chamber. The temperatures probably should be discussed but I'll throw out
a temperature of 90C

[SuperDave42]

It's interesting to think about. and I suppose would only be useful for wide and tall structures that get farther away from the heat on the bed.
currently the Layer fans cool the ABS too much, but if that fan was able to provide a constant flow of hot air at low pressure at the fresh layers I wonder if that would help at all.

I've also been giving a lot of thought to the heated bed itself and have some ideas for that, but that would be a different thread topic.

soo 90°C thrown out so far for a air temp.

the basic idea is taking a squirrel caged layer fan and have it blow through a ceramic tube lined with heated nichrome wire. and have that exhaust air be introduced to the layers.

[Batteau62]

I have played with pointing a small ceramic heater at the bed. I vent my Max and the build area can get chilly(I live in Northwest CT) I think it does help with the factors Jimustanguitar talks about. My plan is to build a "lab vent" table for the printer to sit on and vent local air, and then an enclosure around the Max's build area with radiant heat. IMO to much air flow around the build surface causes trouble. One sticky point is the hotend cooling fan? It needs cold air. I'm thinking of piping filtered air from my garage compressor for it. I also don't currently use an alum/copper dissipator, that's in the plans too.

[grabredemeyer]

I've seen a couple of guys now that have mounted 2 mk2 heated beds vertically inside their chamber with their printer and had some pretty good results. They're just mounting them vertically to the sidewalls of the chamber and putting out ambient heat. As of now they've operated the mk2's separately and haven't done anything fancy like created a PID setup to intelligently alter the chamber temp correctly. I'm currently working on a chamber design for the max that will slide into pre-existing holes on the max etc. It should be pretty slick. I'm designing it to be made out of lasercut melamine to match the max and one other material for my proposed door. The design will be triangular at the base and will enclose from just under the heated bed up..aka, the electronics will not be enclosed for those of you wondering how I'm going to do it. It's a pretty big task though and it will likely be awhile before I can release any files as I'm also going to be moving states soon, starting a new job, etc. When I do complete it, I'll release the files for it(the chamber only, nothing to do with heat )..just noting that 2 of the side panels will have holes cut in them that might or might not match the mounting points for the mk2 ....

[Eaglezsoar]

I've seen a couple of guys now that have mounted 2 mk2 heated beds vertically inside their chamber with their printer and had some pretty good results. They're just mounting them vertically to the sidewalls of the chamber and putting out ambient heat. As of now they've operated the mk2's separately and haven't done anything fancy like created a PID setup to intelligently alter the chamber temp correctly. I'm currently working on a chamber design for the max that will slide into pre-existing holes on the max etc. It should be pretty slick. I'm designing it to be made out of lasercut melamine to match the max and one other material for my proposed door. The design will be triangular at the base and will enclose from just under the heated bed up..aka, the electronics will not be enclosed for those of you wondering how I'm going to do it. It's a pretty big task though and it will likely be awhile before I can release any files as I'm also going to be moving states soon, starting a new job, etc. When I do complete it, I'll release the files for it(the chamber only, nothing to do with heat )..just noting that 2 of the side panels will have holes cut in them that might or might not match the mounting points for the mk2 ....

With all you have going on in your life it will take a while to finish your design but I hope that you do complete this, it sounds great!
Best of luck with the move and starting that new job.

[Fractured_Flicker]

Just a note on optimal temperature for heated build chambers. I have been using one of the high end machines at work for years and it keeps the build volume at 75 deg C for ABS. The build platforms are plastic so they quickly heat up to the temperature of the build chamber and fans move the air around the chamber so the temps are consistent everywhere.

[SuperDave42]

Just a note on optimal temperature for heated build chambers. I have been using one of the high end machines at work for years and it keeps the build volume at 75 deg C for ABS. The build platforms are plastic so they quickly heat up to the temperature of the build chamber and fans move the air around the chamber so the temps are consistent everywhere.

Very good piece of info here, thank you

[grabredemeyer]

Perfect! Thanks, Fractured.

[bdjohns1]

One watchout - I think 75C is above the max operating environment temperature for the steppers we're using. I'm kicking around the heated chamber idea in my head a little, and I'm considering moving the extruder above the top plate to be safe.

[SuperDave42]

One watchout - I think 75C is above the max operating environment temperature for the steppers we're using. I'm kicking around the heated chamber idea in my head a little, and I'm considering moving the extruder above the top plate to be safe.

Good point, I just accuired an incubator PID controler and was thinking about using it in "the chamber"

I realize I would have to move my electronics, isolate the motors, ponder the magnets. research the printed materials used for the printer handling the 70'ish °C without softening.

also should check the belts.

a more interesting way would be to use controlled flow within the vicinity of the build volume only. cool to bounce these ideas around