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Hello!

So I just got my Orion Delta printer from UPS today! I am trying to get my first print going but I am having an issue. As you can see in the video (sorry for the orientation) the left side of the print prints great but the right side of the print does not print. It is like the bed is not level (it is...I checked it with a level). I have tried different Z heights but nothing works, also different filaments. Any advise on how to get this printing correctly would be appreciated!


Video link
http://tinypic.com/r/30szxqf/8


Cheers!


Edit: Attached a pic

Your printer could have experienced rough treatment while in shipment. Check the endstops and make sure that they all have the little metal pieces that the screw pushes on
when your printer homes. Make sure that the arms are properly attached to the ujoints and I would also take a square and see if the uprights are square to the build surface
which on the Orion would have to be the Heatbed.

One of the endstops did fall out during shipment but I fixed that before I tried to print anything. I do not have a square so I cannot see if the arms are square to the bed. Just checking out the printer nothing appears to be loose anywhere.

As you can see in the pictures if I let the print keep going there is a noticeable slant in the print. It appears something is not level, sorry for the crappy image quality I took them with my iPhone.

That is indeed noticeable. I think I would have to contact support at support.seemecnc.com since the printer is so new.
They are busy now with the Printer show that is going on but they should get back to you.

Thanks, I have emailed them. Hopefully we can figure it out!

You need to calibrate. I don't have an Orion or I'd tell ya how.

foshon wrote:You need to calibrate. I don't have an Orion or I'd tell ya how.

I think Gene is working to come up with a calibration section for the Orion Manual, it may be a little while. He is up to eyeballs with the V2 manual.

Is the endstop that fell out, on the tower that lines up with the lowest part of the print? It needs a tower calibration. It's on the card that came with the printer. It looks as if the tower cap has been driven down on the tower. You might want to raise it some before you do a tower calibration.

derwoodvw wrote:Is the endstop that fell out, on the tower that lines up with the lowest part of the print? It needs a tower calibration. It's on the card that came with the printer. It looks as if the tower cap has been driven down on the tower. You might want to raise it some before you do a tower calibration.

If you purchased a new, pre-assembled and calibrated printer and it was apparently damaged in shipping, would you return the printer to be repaired or would you attempt to
calibrate and possibly make everything worse? These printers are not kits and the consumers buying them bought them because they did not want to have to calibrate, they
did not want to dis-assemble, they wanted it to be plug and play and that is not what was received. There is no fault here and no one is to blame, things happen but the owner
of this printer needs to communicate with support at Seemecnc and work out something with them. If you purchased a car and something was wrong with the car would you try
to fix it yourself or would you take it to the dealer to be repaired? If you bought a car in kit form the game changes but this was no kit car.

Eaglezsoar wrote:

derwoodvw wrote:Is the endstop that fell out, on the tower that lines up with the lowest part of the print? It needs a tower calibration. It's on the card that came with the printer. It looks as if the tower cap has been driven down on the tower. You might want to raise it some before you do a tower calibration.

If you purchased a new, pre-assembled and calibrated printer and it was apparently damaged in shipping, would you return the printer to be repaired or would you attempt to
calibrate and possibly make everything worse? These printers are not kits and the consumers buying them bought them because they did not want to have to calibrate, they
did not want to dis-assemble, they wanted it to be plug and play and that is not what was received. There is no fault here and no one is to blame, things happen but the owner
of this printer needs to communicate with support at Seemecnc and work out something with them. If you purchased a car and something was wrong with the car would you try
to fix it yourself or would you take it to the dealer to be repaired? If you bought a car in kit form the game changes but this was no kit car.

I am still waiting for an email reply back from Seemecnc. Yes I would like to plug and play but I understand that is hard with 3D printers. If someone could tell me how to calibrate I could give it a shot, otherwise I will wait on support to tell me what to do.

Thanks

derwoodvw wrote:Is the endstop that fell out, on the tower that lines up with the lowest part of the print? It needs a tower calibration. It's on the card that came with the printer. It looks as if the tower cap has been driven down on the tower. You might want to raise it some before you do a tower calibration.

Yes the endstop that came out is the same tower where the prints are getting messed up. I will look for the card that you say has the instructions to fix.

Thanks

FLuKe wrote:I am still waiting for an email reply back from Seemecnc. Yes I would like to plug and play but I understand that is hard with 3D printers. If someone could tell me how to calibrate I could give it a shot, otherwise I will wait on support to tell me what to do.

For the record, they're very responsive, but you caught them on the worst weekend of the whole year. The MRRF (Midwest RepRap Fest) ran from Friday to Sunday, and it went late into the evenings. It's the show that they host, so it's much more demanding than just attending somebody else's show or maker fair. I think it's back to "business as usual" today, so I'm sure you'll hear from them soon.

Yep, that's shipping damage plain and simple.

Thanks for the info, yes there was some shipping damage. One of the filament guides was broken off.

FLuKe wrote:Thanks for the info, yes there was some shipping damage. One of the filament guides was broken off.

Jim is right, they should be getting back to you soon. Please don't try to fix anything until you hear from them, you will just make things worse.
There is no calibration procedure written for the Orion as of this time, Gene will be creating one but that does not help you now. I still feel that
it should be sent back for repairs.

Eaglezsoar wrote:

FLuKe wrote:Thanks for the info, yes there was some shipping damage. One of the filament guides was broken off.

Jim is right, they should be getting back to you soon. Please don't try to fix anything until you hear from them, you will just make things worse.
There is no calibration procedure written for the Orion as of this time, Gene will be creating one but that does not help you now. I still feel that
it should be sent back for repairs.

I talked to support on Tuesday 3/18. They gave me a calibration file and told me to adjust the endstop screws. I tried this and it did not fix my problem, the screw was all the way screwed down and it extruder was still hitting the glass. Now I cannot get back in touch with support, I have been trying to get back in touch with them for the last two days. Right now I have a $1400 paper weight, I am really frustrated on how hard it is to get in touch with support. I have tried calling but no one answered.

Ok I got my problem fixed. I finally got John on the phone at support and he walked me through how to fix my issue. Thanks for all the help!

FLuKe wrote:Ok I got my problem fixed. I finally got John on the phone at support and he walked me through how to fix my issue. Thanks for all the help!

Could you write up a little something about the problem and what was done to fix it? That's how we learn around here.

Also did you find the broken piece that goes to the filament guide so it can be glued back on?

let me take a moment to jump in on this.

1. My Orion arrived from the factory, off-level about as far as yours. And yes, i bought a "turn-key" unit.. (And I paid 20% more than you, had it shipped overnight Fedex, and it arrived with some damaged parts).. SO I understand your frustration. BUT......

2. re-leveling the head is not hard. It takes patience, perseverance, and a willingness to think.

3. 3d printing is **NOT** a "turn-key" operation, and if you thought you were buying a "plug-n-play" apparatus, you are deluding yourself. I don't want to be a total d**** here, but this is an industry in its infancy. you are NOT GOING TO HAVE A PERFECT PRINT THE FIRST TIME. You are NOT going to get quick easy answers for everything... If it were simple, everybody would be doing it. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it.

That said, here's how to level the head.

PRIMERS:
- 1 if you don't know how to "position", scroll to the bottom of this post.. then come back to here after figuring it out.
- 2. your firmware may have different things in different menu''s.. My Orion came from the factory with "delta calib" in a completely different location than the users guide/manual says.. (if this is confusing or annoying to you, please go back to my point (#3 above), and re-read it. Either figure it out, or put it up for sale and go buy a toy you can understand... this entire industry is filled with "figure it out yourself" stuff, so while I may sound like a total a**, this is how it works....
- 3. The original SD card has a "calbration" folder in it, with a "towers.gco" file. This file is perfect for head alignment. it drops the head to .2 mm, then runs it out to each corner, holds it there for a few secs, then goes to the next corner.. You can visually watch it, to see how much space there is at each of the triangle corners.. Then you can adjust.

So here's how you do it:

1. "home all". (home all is found in numerous menus on the unit - just dig around till you find one).
2. Using "Z Fast", bring the head down to the deck - say .02" above the deck (a paper thickness). or maybe move it say .5 mm above that (if you think your head is way off) - just to protect it from hitting the deck.(see "Positionning" below if you're unsure how to do that..)
3. go to the "Delta Calib" menu, then go to "set measurement"...
4. go "home all"
5. run "towers.gco", and watch the head closely.. it should be close to consistent (consistent height above the deck) when it stops at each corner..
(don't be confused, the head actually LIFTS a bit between corners, so you should only be looking at it when it's stopped at each corner)...
Take note of which side is high or low..
6. When it stops, it'll keep the head down. This is time for your #1 philips screwdriver.

So, let's say there are 3 poles - one at 8pm, one at noon, and one at 5pm...
Let's say the one at 8pm, the head comes down REALLY REALLY close to the deck, but at noon, it's way high, and at 5pm, it's about right (about the same .02" above the deck)....

THat means you've got either:
8pm is too low, noon is way high, and 5 is just right
OR
8pn is perfect, noon is WAY WAY high, and 5pm is a bit high.

See, all 3 points are relative.

The Orion takes all its measurements based on where it "zero's" at the top of the deck. so it counts "down" from the top.

SO when you adjust the #1 philips screws on each skate deck, that tells the unit where that side of the head is at...

** QUICK RULE OF THUMB (for adjustment screws)
- If it's too LOW (the head is too close to the deck), screw it IN (clockwise from above) -
- If it's too HIGH (the head is too far ABOVE the deck), UNSCREW it (counterclockwise from above)


So here's what I'd do...

Back to our measurements.. I'm going with the first idea above... ( 8pm is too low, noon is way high, and 5 is just right)

- that means I need to adjust screws on both 8pm and noon, but I'm goign to NOT adjust 5pm..
So... I'm going to run the 8pm screw in.. say 1/2 of a turn. That'll make it LIFT that post up by 1/2 turn.
Then I'm going to run the screw on the noon pole OUT by say, a full turn, or 1.25 turns..

[little side hint here: I use the 4 slots in the screw heads as alignment points, and I'm always counting them as "flats" - or 1/4 turn segments.. I may turn as little as 1/8th of a turn, which is half of one flat... this makes it easy for me to be accurate in adjustments]




BUT....
let's say that your 8pm screw is ALL THE WAY IN. well you can't turn it in any more.
so this means the whole thing is miscalibrated by a bit... no biggie - don't sweat it.

what we'll do is back them ALL out by the exact same amount (say 1.5 turns each).. Now we've "bought back" some space to allow adjustement. BUT, so all we're gonna do is back them all out equally, then readjust to equalize the 3 head points.

NOW we can go backand adjust each again: 8pm is gonna get turned down say 1/2 turn, noon gets 1-1.25 turns, and 5pm is gonna stay the same.



NEXT...

7. you have to "re-zero" the deck..
- a. "home all"
- b.bring head down to .02" above the deck (see "Positionning" below if you're unsure..). (i use a sliver of paper, and SLOWLY VERY SLOWLY bump the head down to it, until the head is JUST BARELY rubbing the paper and causing friction...
c. when head is perfect at .02" off deck, go to "delta calib" and "set measurement"....

Then..
8. re-rurn the "towers.gco", and watch the head. it should be getting a lot closer to accurate.



NOW... here's the point where people get confused.

You're going to have to repeat 6 & 7 above, a couple times, to get this right.

*EACH TIME YOU ADJUST*, you have to re-"home all", THEN bring the head down, "re-zero", and THEN run "towers.gco" again..

If you simply skip the "re-zero" step, your last adjustments won't take affect, because the system won't have recalibrated and re-adjusted your "zero" points....


I usually have to calibrate my head every 30-40 print jobs (bear in mind i'm on my 4th print for today, my printer is running AT LEAST 18 hours out of every day, and has since it arrived 4 months ago), and i'm trying to keep it as flat as possible).. so you might well have to recalibrate more often if it sits around a lot without prints, OR if you bang/bump/abuse it at all....






**POSITIONNING**

- there's a menu that says something like "Position"..
in it is "home all", X position, X FAST position, Y position, Y FAST, Z, Z Fast, and a few other things...

You ONLY CARE ABOUT Z and Z FAST.....

1. when moving the head up/down. MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHICH WAY IS DOWN. NEVER RUN IT "UP" when the head is already up.. that can cause unhappiness and other bad things.
2. when you're adjusting, the "Fast" motions are 1mm increments.. the standard "Zposition", goes in I think .01mm increments (I'd check, but my printer is 22% thru a print right now, so I can't stop it just to check)....
3. IF you accidentally bump the head against EITHER END while doing position changes at all, stop everything, and "home all", then start again.. Otherwise the printer loses a bit of the adjustment and will NOT be accurate. Follow this rule religiously - it'll prevent unhappiness...

FLuKe wrote:

derwoodvw wrote:Is the endstop that fell out, on the tower that lines up with the lowest part of the print? It needs a tower calibration. It's on the card that came with the printer. It looks as if the tower cap has been driven down on the tower. You might want to raise it some before you do a tower calibration.

Yes the endstop that came out is the same tower where the prints are getting messed up. I will look for the card that you say has the instructions to fix.

Thanks

Interesting the issues you had.

Mine arrived with one of the filament guides snapped off/crunched in, one of the endstop levers popped off, and one of the arms knocked loose..

1. they may send you a replacement guide part.. it's a TOTAL PITA to install.. I gave up and glued mine together (takes a couple hours to install, and really isnt' worth the hassle).
2. the endstop switches MUST be right, or you'll never ever get a level print.. The levers can be bent - that's not a problem. but they must all work...


IMHO, the shipping/package that they (seemecnc) use on this is inferior. it needs to be about an inch wider on each side (2x2" larger in each dimension), to prevent shipping damage. and the folks doing packaging need to take a primer in packing.. I say this, having run a couple ecommerce fulfillment operations where we prep, pack, and ship anywhere from 200-1000 packages in an afternoon, so i've got a bit of experience in packaging for undamaged delivery.....

OrionNoob, that is the most detailed and the most precise writeup I have ever seen.
Thanks for all the time that it took you to write it and should be most valuable to other Orion
users.

0rionN00b wrote:let me take a moment to jump in on this.

1. My Orion arrived from the factory, off-level about as far as yours. And yes, i bought a "turn-key" unit.. (And I paid 20% more than you, had it shipped overnight Fedex, and it arrived with some damaged parts).. SO I understand your frustration. BUT......

2. re-leveling the head is not hard. It takes patience, perseverance, and a willingness to think.

3. 3d printing is **NOT** a "turn-key" operation, and if you thought you were buying a "plug-n-play" apparatus, you are deluding yourself. I don't want to be a total d**** here, but this is an industry in its infancy. you are NOT GOING TO HAVE A PERFECT PRINT THE FIRST TIME. You are NOT going to get quick easy answers for everything... If it were simple, everybody would be doing it. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it.

That said, here's how to level the head.

PRIMERS:
- 1 if you don't know how to "position", scroll to the bottom of this post.. then come back to here after figuring it out.
- 2. your firmware may have different things in different menu''s.. My Orion came from the factory with "delta calib" in a completely different location than the users guide/manual says.. (if this is confusing or annoying to you, please go back to my point (#3 above), and re-read it. Either figure it out, or put it up for sale and go buy a toy you can understand... this entire industry is filled with "figure it out yourself" stuff, so while I may sound like a total a**, this is how it works....
- 3. The original SD card has a "calbration" folder in it, with a "towers.gco" file. This file is perfect for head alignment. it drops the head to .2 mm, then runs it out to each corner, holds it there for a few secs, then goes to the next corner.. You can visually watch it, to see how much space there is at each of the triangle corners.. Then you can adjust.

So here's how you do it:

1. "home all". (home all is found in numerous menus on the unit - just dig around till you find one).
2. Using "Z Fast", bring the head down to the deck - say .02" above the deck (a paper thickness). or maybe move it say .5 mm above that (if you think your head is way off) - just to protect it from hitting the deck.(see "Positionning" below if you're unsure how to do that..)
3. go to the "Delta Calib" menu, then go to "set measurement"...
4. go "home all"
5. run "towers.gco", and watch the head closely.. it should be close to consistent (consistent height above the deck) when it stops at each corner..
(don't be confused, the head actually LIFTS a bit between corners, so you should only be looking at it when it's stopped at each corner)...
Take note of which side is high or low..
6. When it stops, it'll keep the head down. This is time for your #1 philips screwdriver.

So, let's say there are 3 poles - one at 8pm, one at noon, and one at 5pm...
Let's say the one at 8pm, the head comes down REALLY REALLY close to the deck, but at noon, it's way high, and at 5pm, it's about right (about the same .02" above the deck)....

THat means you've got either:
8pm is too low, noon is way high, and 5 is just right
OR
8pn is perfect, noon is WAY WAY high, and 5pm is a bit high.

See, all 3 points are relative.

The Orion takes all its measurements based on where it "zero's" at the top of the deck. so it counts "down" from the top.

SO when you adjust the #1 philips screws on each skate deck, that tells the unit where that side of the head is at...

** QUICK RULE OF THUMB (for adjustment screws)
- If it's too LOW (the head is too close to the deck), screw it IN (clockwise from above) -
- If it's too HIGH (the head is too far ABOVE the deck), UNSCREW it (counterclockwise from above)


So here's what I'd do...

Back to our measurements.. I'm going with the first idea above... ( 8pm is too low, noon is way high, and 5 is just right)

- that means I need to adjust screws on both 8pm and noon, but I'm goign to NOT adjust 5pm..
So... I'm going to run the 8pm screw in.. say 1/2 of a turn. That'll make it LIFT that post up by 1/2 turn.
Then I'm going to run the screw on the noon pole OUT by say, a full turn, or 1.25 turns..

[little side hint here: I use the 4 slots in the screw heads as alignment points, and I'm always counting them as "flats" - or 1/4 turn segments.. I may turn as little as 1/8th of a turn, which is half of one flat... this makes it easy for me to be accurate in adjustments]




BUT....
let's say that your 8pm screw is ALL THE WAY IN. well you can't turn it in any more.
so this means the whole thing is miscalibrated by a bit... no biggie - don't sweat it.

what we'll do is back them ALL out by the exact same amount (say 1.5 turns each).. Now we've "bought back" some space to allow adjustement. BUT, so all we're gonna do is back them all out equally, then readjust to equalize the 3 head points.

NOW we can go backand adjust each again: 8pm is gonna get turned down say 1/2 turn, noon gets 1-1.25 turns, and 5pm is gonna stay the same.



NEXT...

7. you have to "re-zero" the deck..
- a. "home all"
- b.bring head down to .02" above the deck (see "Positionning" below if you're unsure..). (i use a sliver of paper, and SLOWLY VERY SLOWLY bump the head down to it, until the head is JUST BARELY rubbing the paper and causing friction...
c. when head is perfect at .02" off deck, go to "delta calib" and "set measurement"....

Then..
8. re-rurn the "towers.gco", and watch the head. it should be getting a lot closer to accurate.



NOW... here's the point where people get confused.

You're going to have to repeat 6 & 7 above, a couple times, to get this right.

*EACH TIME YOU ADJUST*, you have to re-"home all", THEN bring the head down, "re-zero", and THEN run "towers.gco" again..

If you simply skip the "re-zero" step, your last adjustments won't take affect, because the system won't have recalibrated and re-adjusted your "zero" points....


I usually have to calibrate my head every 30-40 print jobs (bear in mind i'm on my 4th print for today, my printer is running AT LEAST 18 hours out of every day, and has since it arrived 4 months ago), and i'm trying to keep it as flat as possible).. so you might well have to recalibrate more often if it sits around a lot without prints, OR if you bang/bump/abuse it at all....






**POSITIONNING**

- there's a menu that says something like "Position"..
in it is "home all", X position, X FAST position, Y position, Y FAST, Z, Z Fast, and a few other things...

You ONLY CARE ABOUT Z and Z FAST.....

1. when moving the head up/down. MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHICH WAY IS DOWN. NEVER RUN IT "UP" when the head is already up.. that can cause unhappiness and other bad things.
2. when you're adjusting, the "Fast" motions are 1mm increments.. the standard "Zposition", goes in I think .01mm increments (I'd check, but my printer is 22% thru a print right now, so I can't stop it just to check)....
3. IF you accidentally bump the head against EITHER END while doing position changes at all, stop everything, and "home all", then start again.. Otherwise the printer loses a bit of the adjustment and will NOT be accurate. Follow this rule religiously - it'll prevent unhappiness...

Where is the "like" button? This was an awesome post! This is EXACTLY what support walked me through!

Glad to help!

took me a bit to figure all that out myself, but it's a bit fundamental to the printing process, and until i got it figured out, I had a LOT of frustrating failed prints...