Bad surfaces on Support side

[chris081277]

Hey everyone,

I'm hoping to get this figured out. I think the main problem is me expecting more out of this machine. But once I realized the limitations of it's capabilities, I stopped expecting high quality prints. However, this issue is pretty unacceptable in my opinion.

I created a small spaceship for a project a while ago, and I'm finally getting around to printing it on my machine. Here are my specs. If you need to know any other information, let me know and I'll gather it.

Rostock Max V2
Repetier-Host Mac V0.56
Sliced with Slic3r v 1.0.1
Layer height - .2mm
Perimeters - 4
Material - ABS
Nozzle Temp - 230º
Bed Temp - 90º

As you can see from the pics, the underside, that touches any support area, has a complete 'spaghetti' surface. Basically the topside looks great, but the bottom looks like trash. What can I do to improve the surface on the support side of the print?

I don't want to give up on this printer, but several of my friends have MB Replicator 2's and I have only seen trouble free prints from those machines. Simplicity and ease of use, print after print. With the Rostock MAX V2 it seems like every print I'm having to calibrate it or trouble shoot it. I understand this is a tinkerer's paradise, but it still shouldn't be this bad. Or am I expecting too much?

I'm also trying to upload the file for you guys to try if you want.

[img]http://www.inkt.us/FILES/Spaceship1.jpeg[/img]
[img]http://www.inkt.us/FILES/Spaceship2.jpeg[/img]
[img]http://www.inkt.us/FILES/Spaceship3.jpeg[/img]
[img]http://www.inkt.us/FILES/Spaceship4.jpeg[/img]

[FDM_Process]

To me it looks like there is some over extrusion issues as well as some layer separation from not having your machine properly z'd. Have you done any of the calibration prints? Also, what are the settings for your supports?? You might want to put them closer together.

Don't give up on this printer, it just takes time to learn how to properly use these machines. I also own a Solidoodle 2 that I have heavly modded. The tinkering needed on that machine way surpasses this Rostock Max. That being said, it really takes time, patience, and the proper settings to get these machines to spit out the prints you want but once you know what you are doing you'll be fine. The same is true for every consumer grade FDM printer right now, even the Makerbots.

[Polygonhell]

Slicers support has never been very good, KissSlicers is probably the best of the big 3 in that regard.

[chris081277]

To me it looks like there is some over extrusion issues as well as some layer separation from not having your machine properly z'd. Have you done any of the calibration prints? Also, what are the settings for your supports?? You might want to put them closer together.

Don't give up on this printer, it just takes time to learn how to properly use these machines. I also own a Solidoodle 2 that I have heavly modded. The tinkering needed on that machine way surpasses this Rostock Max. That being said, it really takes time, patience, and the proper settings to get these machines to spit out the prints you want but once you know what you are doing you'll be fine. The same is true for every consumer grade FDM printer right now, even the Makerbots.

Which calibration prints are you referring to? I thought I had this thing calibrated correctly using the 4 Scripts method that is shown in the manual. Is there another calibration step that I missed?

My support settings are as follows:
Overhang threshold - 0º
Enforce support for the first - 2 layers
Raft layers - 0
Pattern - rectilinear
Pattern spacing - 3.5mm
Pattern Angle - 0º
Interface layers - 0 layers
Interface pattern spacing - 0mm

Are these horribly out of whack?

Thanks for the help!

[Polygonhell]

Unfortunately FDM printing is something of art form, getting truly great prints can require a disproportionate amount of dicking around.
The extruder needs to be properly calibrated, see the extruder calibration print. You need to be printing at the "right" temperature, you have to have the right cooling etc etc etc.

Support in the open source software has generally not been very good, as I said I've always found Slic3rs support to be just short of crap, Cura's is usually OK, but KissSlicer is the best of the 3, I'm told that simplify 3d is very good in this regard as well, but I haven't tested it.

[chris081277]

Unfortunately FDM printing is something of art form, getting truly great prints can require a disproportionate amount of dicking around.
The extruder needs to be properly calibrated, see the extruder calibration print. You need to be printing at the "right" temperature, you have to have the right cooling etc etc etc.

Support in the open source software has generally not been very good, as I said I've always found Slic3rs support to be just short of crap, Cura's is usually OK, but KissSlicer is the best of the 3, I'm told that simplify 3d is very good in this regard as well, but I haven't tested it.

Thanks for the input Polygonhell. I must be a super-noob as I'm not quite sure what you're referring to with the 'extruder calibration print'. Is that an .stl file that I should print out? I don't recall seeing that in the manual at all. Would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

[geneb]

You might want to try printing with PLA as well - that's a contributing factor to the *hisses* MB replicator 2 print quality.

See page 236 for a discussion about e-step calibration.

g.

[FDM_Process]

Which calibration prints are you referring to? I thought I had this thing calibrated correctly using the 4 Scripts method that is shown in the manual. Is there another calibration step that I missed?

My support settings are as follows:
Overhang threshold - 0º
Enforce support for the first - 2 layers
Raft layers - 0
Pattern - rectilinear
Pattern spacing - 3.5mm
Pattern Angle - 0º
Interface layers - 0 layers
Interface pattern spacing - 0mm

Are these horribly out of whack?

Thanks for the help!

Not %100 percent sure what the settings should be for your print.. as I have barely done any prints on this printer myself. But try printing with smaller spacing between the supports. You could also try rotating your model in such a way that less support is needed.

As for calibration prints, if you search on thingiverse there are a ton of different callibration prints that will help you with fine tuning your machine. http://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=cal ... n+cube&sa=

It takes time, you're not going to be an expert right out of the bag, but if you keep at it and don't get so frustrated that you rage destroy your machine, you'll come out on the other end as an expert.

[Polygonhell]

You might want to try printing with PLA as well - that's a contributing factor to the *hisses* MB replicator 2 print quality.

For pieces with significant overhangs it can certainly help, but that's as much about the fact you almost always print with significant cooling for PLA than any other factor.
You can get stellar results out of ABS, but you have to cool when printing overhangs, and that means you have to print a lot hotter to get enough layer adhesion that the print doesn't split.
I tend to agree that I think PLA is easier to print with, as long as you have a Hotend fan and as long as get the temperature as low as you can reliably get it for whatever plastic you are using.
Support is much easier to remove from ABS though.

[chris081277]

So I tried printing a makerbolt just to see what the print would come out like. I forgot that I had 'raft' layers left on when I sliced it. When the print was done, I peeled off the 3 layer raft and the bottom surface was just as bad as the space ship print with supports.

Am I missing some setting somewhere? It seems like wherever there is a support or raft, there isn't a "true" bottom layer. The rest of the makerbolt print turned out beautiful....minus the first layer.