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http://3dprint.com/2...3d-printed-gun/

While I'll leave the discussion of ethics/morals/political stances off the table for this post, I still wanted to call out that this happened and may have an impact on printing rights, or lack thereof.

Admittedly Japan has far stricter gun laws that the US, but it's something to think about.

The link doesn't work for me, but I'm assuming that was the guy who made the zig-zag revolver? That video was publicized and he didn't do anything to hide his identity. Japan pretty much has a no-guns policy. And 2 years in a Japanese prison is orders of magnitude better that what you would get for breaking ATF regulations!

I think this outcome was straightforward and predictable and it didn't require any precedent to be set. Things might be more complicated in the US or countries with blurred lines related to gun laws.

M****bot puts cameras in their newer printers, and they're wifi capable. It reminds me of what happened with laptops around a decade ago. It's a good way to collect evidence of what people are printing if the government ever decides to ban certain printed objects (guns). I'm not implying that the government would use cameras to monitor its citizens, though.

What is the world coming to.

Go to any hardware store and you can find all the parts to make a much better and accurate gun.

If it must be plastic, you can always buy a rod of delrin and drill out the barrel.


This is just plain ignorance talking. People who have not even built ikea furniture. Have no idea what it takes to fire a projectile. And just the word "gun" makes them go crazy.

Should start a campaign to make guns out of random crap. Coca cola cans and bottles. Pens. Toilet pipes from the junkyard...

I think the 3D printing aspect of it is a side-show in this case. Far as I can tell, his sentence was for manufacturing and possessing unlicensed firearms under Japanese law. The fact that they were mostly plastic isn't the legal issue in this case.

Try this link, the OP's is broken.

http://3dprint.com/20019/sentence-imura-3d-printed-gun/

Agree with the others. I think the technology used has nothing to do with the charge or the sentence. If it's illegal to make a gun, it's illegal to make a gun. Get caught making guns illegally (and posting it up on the interwebs is a pretty good way to get caught) and you're going to have a bad time.

Oddly, the first thing I often get asked when someone discovers I own a 3d printer is "so, printed a gun yet?"

Odd, because that question is never asked of the lathe, mill, grinders, bandsaw etc I have in the shed. And the printer would be the last thing I'd be looking at using if I wanted to make a gun.

Why anyone would bother printing a gun is beyond me. Bazooka's are much more fun!
Seriously though, I would be afraid of it failing and having plastic and a shell casing lodged in my chest.

But the other tools in your shed weren't publicized like 3d printers! I guess it's just so much more time intensive to make guns with those metalworking tools, which is why very few people do it (except AR-15 lowers, ect).

If I were to make a gun, I'd print most of it in nylon and turn the barrel on my cnc lathe. Only a few parts of guns need to be metal, and there are high end plastics that may work as substitutes. PI, PEI, PAI, PPA.

People who work with hobby level printers like us know that making a decent gun with a 3d printer is almost impossible right now. The prints just aren't strong enough or detailed enough or rigid enough. But in the next few years, I expect to see more and more gun components being printed. Barrels and firing pins will be the last to go!

Yeah, I think this being 3d printed is certainly in the periphery. It was a more or less obvious outcome to manufacturing any kind of firearm in Japan.

Side note: Weren't Sten Guns in WW2 originally made from a bicycle machine shop? I could be wrong on my history there, but I seem to remember that fact.

In other news, here is a gun I would LOVE to 3d print
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7K91g8yG_w

Kinda.

In the real world? 3d printers need a significant amount of dicking about to get a reliable, clean print out. And they need continual tweaking and babysitting to keep them printing clean. And good result require specific tweaks to settings for many prints, together with a selection of slicer and so on required. All in all (I think, anyway) it probably needs about as much technical nouse, experience and acumen to print a gun as it does to machine one.

The term 3d "printer", though, means the great unwashed and unenlightened mass of media gobbling clueless heathens out there assume you download a PDF, hit the "print" button et voila, thirteen seconds later a perfect reproduction of infinite strength in full colour drops out of a hopper like a vending machine or something.

Food for thought for those that sell/rent machine time:

It is a felony to produce and sell a firearm without an FFL.

The ATF's designation of a firearm is as follows:

The term “firearm” is defined in the Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(3), to include "(A) any weapon (including a starter gun), which will, or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon…." Based on Section 921(a)(3), air guns, because they use compressed air and not an explosive to expel a projectile, do not constitute firearms under Federal law — unless they are manufactured with the frames or receivers of an actual firearm. Accordingly, the domestic sale and possession of air guns is normally unregulated under the Federal firearms laws enforced by ATF.

We caution that ATF is not charged with enforcement or oversight of the firearms laws of States or localities. To determine possible restrictions on air guns where you reside, we recommend that you contact the office of your state Attorney General, the State Police, or other State/local law enforcement authorities for further guidance.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firear ... ology.html

If you get parts for an order and something seems a bit off, be careful. If you were to print one of DefCad's Lower Receivers for example, the moment that the part is complete, it is a firearm.

Of course, in the USA there's still a class of guns that mostly falls outside the ATF's purview and can be had without paperwork, licenses or background checks in most places (but still check state and local laws first). They're a pain in the butt to load, but they shoot just fine. Old technology still works. I'm sure someone out there is printing a muzzle-loader with a percussion cap ignition.

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term “antique firearm” means —
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

Eric wrote:Of course, in the USA there's still a class of guns that mostly falls outside the ATF's purview and can be had without paperwork, licenses or background checks in most places (but still check state and local laws first). They're a pain in the butt to load, but they shoot just fine. Old technology still works. I'm sure someone out there is printing a muzzle-loader with a percussion cap ignition.

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term “antique firearm” means —
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

Woot! 3D printed blunderbuss!! You could even break up your failed prints for ammo!

So the 3D printing guys do pretty well in jail, that's good street cred, right?

I can make guns all day long for my own use and it's perfectly legal. The "felony" part comes in when I decide to start selling what I make without a FFL.

There's nothing to see here. A guy made a gun in a country that's got very, VERY strict gun laws and he got nailed for it. End of story.

g.

That seems a bit excessive... I think they should be more concerned he used school property to create a personal item (the filament and printer time). My school has a few 3D printers and our tech teacher doesn't use it to create personal items, he uses them for class work. It's cosmetic parts for a paintball gun, which in my opinion is analogous to printing a mock thermal detonator from Star Wars or Phaser from Star Trek.

Well keep in mind the kinds of purse-clutching hysteria that the words "gun" and "school" generate when within a quarter mile of one another.

We're talking about people that take "zero tolerance" so far that they'll bounce a kid out of school for a 1" long GI Joe pistol or a Pop Tart eaten into an "L" shape. They're not exactly exemplars of intelligence and decision making here.

g.

What I do not get at all and clear points to the sensationalizing of the 3d printed gun issue is why cnc machines that can make the very same parts out of aluminium are never mentioned. Or painted as the "evil" that lets home users produce firearms. Produce them better and out of far more reliable less likely to blow your hands off materials such as aluminium. These cnc machines can be made and had for the same price point as a far poorer choice of machine such as a 3D printer that uses plastic.

Personally I have a sign on my wall that states "NO! I will not print you a F**king GUN!"

Not to worry, this site will remove all the heat from the 3D printing crowd for awhile once its on the news.
https://ghostgunner.net/

Hydrolove wrote:Not to worry, this site will remove all the heat from the 3D printing crowd for awhile once its on the news.
https://ghostgunner.net/

This machine (if it comes to life) and ones like it may change the way ATF views an "80%" receiver. In the past the ATF has considered that a fair degree of skill and equipment has been required to complete an 80% receiver. This position started to become stretched when 80% jigs designed to be used with a Harbor Freight drill presses started to surface and CNC Shops started hosting "Build Parties" (now considered to be illegal). This may push that thinking back to allowing less to be completed on a Lower Receiver than currently allowed on the metal chunks. Right now the receiver is a paper weight until the Fire Control Cavity including holes for the Hammer, Trigger and Selector are completed no matter what else has been done.

I currently machine my lowers from 0%er's and 80%er's, I hate doing the magazine well. I do this not to avoid registration or the guys in black helicopters that will shoot your dog but the get the level of customization allowed by doing it yourself. All of my stuff has a Serial Number and the ATF suggested ID engraved to the correct height and minimum depth, it just neat to see my name on the receiver as the manufacturer.

At $1500 you can legally buy a LOT of finished receivers, actually finished receivers commonly are very little more than 80%'ers.

As to trying to print a receiver for anything, the strength isn't there, the finish isn't there and it don't look or feel right. Maybe someday.

I saw that ghost gunner thing a few days ago. Looks awesome. I'm more excited about a portable CNC machine than just finishing lower receivers. But yeah, the ATF will probably change rules once these things start crankin' out lowers.

They will specify that the 80% lower cannot have the magazine well broached. Then Defense Distributed will make a broaching modification to the ghost gunner!

Generic Default wrote:I saw that ghost gunner thing a few days ago. Looks awesome. I'm more excited about a portable CNC machine than just finishing lower receivers. But yeah, the ATF will probably change rules once these things start crankin' out lowers.

They will specify that the 80% lower cannot have the magazine well broached. Then Defense Distributed will make a broaching modification to the ghost gunner!

Yeah, my CNC machine with accessories is about 2000#. Portable if you have big strong porters.

I have a Tormach PCNC1100 with an ATC, PDB and a fourth axes.

Flateric wrote:What I do not get at all and clear points to the sensationalizing of the 3d printed gun issue is why cnc machines that can make the very same parts out of aluminium are never mentioned. Or painted as the "evil" that lets home users produce firearms. Produce them better and out of far more reliable less likely to blow your hands off materials such as aluminium. These cnc machines can be made and had for the same price point as a far poorer choice of machine such as a 3D printer that uses plastic.

Because idiots don't usually buy traditional machine tools for fun

Why does it even have to be a machine that people are so worried about? Go buy some black powder and a pipe from WalMart for $20... A destructive person is not enabled by the capabilities of a machine, they're already messed up and going to find a means regardless. Maybe we should ban pencils because of how violent they can be around jokers.

Wait till they figure out all you need (besides fissile material) to build a nuke is a lathe and a mill.

g.