Fly-n-Strude from Trick Laser

[Jimustanguitar]

New product from Trick Laser!!

First some back story... a little more than a year ago, Glenn Berden from The MakerHive noticed how much resistance there can be when pushing filament through a long bowden tube. He thought that it must be effecting the ability of the extruder to work properly and to retract quickly. To remedy this he decided to hang his extruder closer to the hot-end and significantly shorten the length of the tube. He tried it and it worked, so several of us did it too. It also improves the accuracy of your extrusion since bending a bowden tube will vary the tube's length compared to the filament inside - a shorter tube is more direct and allows for less error. You may recall seeing a handfull of "air-struders" hanging on bungee cords at the last MRRF fest. I've been doing it for more than a year, and just about everybody that's tried seems to like it. Glenn's idea has even caught on with other makers around the community and you'll see several machines out there that borrow from this concept.

Fast forward to now, and Trick Laser has created the Fly-n-Strude to let you hang your extruder without all of the rigged up zip-ties and improvised mounting. I've been printing for a few weeks with it, and I like it much better than the original setup that I had. It holds the extruder in a stable position and doesn't flop around or rotate. It's also done away with the problem where my mini-bungee cords would come unhooked or snap their zip-ties. It solves all of the problems that I was having with my improvised air-struder.

Here's a (crappy) video of it in action on my machine last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhVjtna ... e=youtu.be

And here are some pictures of the setup. Let me know if you want me to get any different angles or perspectives.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/fnKxfzv.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/xD7qDXj.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/cTrfwby.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/tmgyzTh.jpg[/img]


Brian intends to have them up on the website in the next week or so.

[mhackney]

Will there be a dual? My E3D Systems Cyclops just arrived 5 minutes ago!

[jmpreuss]

Any estimates on when this will be available for purchase?

[Jimustanguitar]

TL is going to cut the first batch and try to have them online sometime next week.

[Renha]

Would it possible to use 1 airstruder while having 3 EZ at original setup? I wish to use one with my Kraken

//sorry my English

[Jimustanguitar]

Somebody has to try it first, but my guess is that multiple extruders would get prohibitively heavy after 2 or 3. I'll brainstorm with the guys this week and see if there's a logical way to hang more than one.

Quick and light is a little bit different goal than multi-extrusion at the moment. Hopefully as it becomes more refined there will be lighter and more compact ways to do multiple extruders.

[Tonkabot]

Do you notice an improvement [or even a difference] with the 3 layer fans?

[Tonkabot]

Somebody has to try it first, but my guess is that multiple extruders would get prohibitively heavy after 2 or 3. I'll brainstorm with the guys this week and see if there's a logical way to hang more than one.

Quick and light is a little bit different goal than multi-extrusion at the moment. Hopefully as it becomes more refined there will be lighter and more compact ways to do multiple extruders.

How about a bungie that supports the weight of the flying struder platform going to a 'z-winch' at the top. This Z-winch only has to keep in time with the actual Z of the platform, although it could do some math and give more slack in the bungie when the end effector is far from X=0,y=0.

having it winch bungie might be problematic, maybe it winches a string and the last foot is bungie.

The winch could be winching a belt, and the belt has another pulley bringing it outside the towers where a counterweight hangs down, equal to the weight of the flying platform.

the software already knows the z-height before it transforms it to delta coordinates, driving a winch stepper should not be hard if you have enough stepper drivers (like my board will have )

[jdurand]

Quick and light is a little bit different goal than multi-extrusion at the moment. Hopefully as it becomes more refined there will be lighter and more compact ways to do multiple extruders.

One motor with a multi-way clutch that switches between filaments to drive?

[Renha]

One motor with a multi-way clutch that switches between filaments to drive?

sounds really great!

[Tonkabot]

Quick and light is a little bit different goal than multi-extrusion at the moment. Hopefully as it becomes more refined there will be lighter and more compact ways to do multiple extruders.

One motor with a multi-way clutch that switches between filaments to drive?

someone had one like that on kickstarter or something. Used a hobby servo to switch the stepper between filaments.

I was thinking that an inchworm piezo drive could be made super small and work really well. There are a few problems with it though:
1) the filament thickness varies, so you would need some kind of automatic tension pincher
2) all filament is a bit flexable, and that might be too much for piezo (or not if you solved #1 well)
3) I just discovered that the piezo inchworms are not open loop. you need position feedback from somewhere to close the loop and give you precise postitioning.

Just imagine an extruder that can push/pull 8 filaments and fit all 8 in the space one stepper motor takes. Then we just need those mixing extruders to work...

[626Pilot]

Quick and light is a little bit different goal than multi-extrusion at the moment. Hopefully as it becomes more refined there will be lighter and more compact ways to do multiple extruders.

Will there be a dual? My E3D Systems Cyclops just arrived 5 minutes ago!

I got you covered. I designed this a few months ago, but I never said anything about it because I figured the "keep the drivetrain mass as close to to 0.0 grams as possible" crew would throw old tomatoes at me. (Seriously, I thought people would give me crap about it for days!) Anyway, it works fine and the X motor doesn't seem to run any hotter than Y or Z. Based on Z-probing, it doesn't seem to hurt repeatability either. The extruder's proximity to the carriage means that the vast majority of momentum is up/down very close to the hinge, where it doesn't have much leverage. (It DOES have to be really close to the carriage hinge - the closer it is to the platform, the more bending the tube has to do.) The extruder is offset and angled out a little from the arm to help it point to the hot end. You should be able to put one of these on each arm, and with the stock "hangy" extruder mount, you can pump filament to all four chambers of a Kraken

Apologies to Trick Laser for stealing their thunder, but this mod only works if you already have TL arms. It also uses a longer tube, so you might get slightly better friction/hysteresis from using the TL design. (However, my design already cuts about half of the Bowden length vs. stock.)

[img]http://thingiverse-production-new.s3.am ... atured.jpg[/img]

[teoman]

626Pilot, why would the extruders need to be on the arms, why not have them on the carriages.

[Nylocke]

This looks scary, I'm gonna try it

If you want the ultimate test, I have 3 top mounted steppers for my Kraken right now as it is. I can do a comparison in print quality between all 3 top mounted and all 3 arm mounted just to prove the effectiveness of your design. Or Michael could as well.

[teoman]

I just had a look at the piezo legs. They would be absolutely perfect for this application. They weigh only a few grams and should be able to push filament with 20N with very minor modifications. Unfortunately, my "fiddling around" budget for experiential stuff is not yet in the 1k usd range

[Eaglezsoar]

I do hope he gets them on his site soon, I think it's a cool idea!

[626Pilot]

626Pilot, why would the extruders need to be on the arms, why not have them on the carriages.

Putting them on the arms brings them closer to the hot end and lets me center the EZ-Struder output relative to the effector as well as I can. It goes out of center as the effector moves toward the edge, but it's still pretty good. In this configuration, it also doesn't get in the way of anything. Putting it on the carriage would move it further away and make it harder to keep the filament path as minimally curved as possible, because it would have to be mounted to the left or right of the carriage. The more degrees of curvature, the more friction. It can't be mounted above or below the carriage because the endstops are upstairs, and the bottom plate is downstairs.

There is a slight issue with the extruder mount creeping down the arms over time, even if the apparatus is tightened properly. I think a little hairspray on the arms and on the outside of the heat shrink tubing ("vibration mount") would fix that properly.

Also, this mod makes the extruder Q-U-I-E-T! You have to be sitting next to it to hear anything at all. Retracts are whisper-quiet and skipping, which could be heard through a closed door before, is just a quiet thud.

[Eaglezsoar]

626Pilot, have you had a chance to try the flexible filament with your extruder placement on the arms?

[Nylocke]

If you're thinking about jamming issues this mod probably won't help if you're using a regular EZstruder. If you're refering to "extruder lag" or the filament compressing in the long length of the tube and issues associated with that, then I wouldn't doubt that this helps, but Pilot would know better than myself.

[Eaglezsoar]

If you're thinking about jamming issues this mod probably won't help if you're using a regular EZstruder. If you're refering to "extruder lag" or the filament compressing in the long length of the tube and issues associated with that, then I wouldn't doubt that this helps, but Pilot would know better than myself.

I was thinking about jamming issues. Most like likely this mod would have to be done along with your mod to the EZstruder.
Thanks for your response.

[Nylocke]

Pilot should probably make a new thread if he wants the discussion to continue on his design, I think we've derailed this enough

Jim, good work on the design. Looks nice, liking the laser cut stuff, pretty "trick"

[Jimustanguitar]

Do you notice an improvement [or even a difference] with the 3 layer fans?

I originally put 3 fans on because features facing away from the fan would still sag on overhangs. 3 was the logical way to make everything symmetrical.

Jim, good work on the design. Looks nice, liking the laser cut stuff, pretty "trick"

Don't give me any credit, it's Brian's design. Trick Laser had it cut and ready to try before I even knew it existed.

[Nylocke]

Sorry, I get confused with who all is apart of Tricklaser. I see you posting all the buzz for them it seems so I assumed you were integral to the creation Good job Brian, all those things I said.

[Jimustanguitar]

We're just friends that go to the same makerspace. Same one as SeeMeCNC, too!

[626Pilot]

Pilot should probably make a new thread if he wants the discussion to continue on his design, I think we've derailed this enough

I agree. I put a link to the TL carbon fiber arms on the Thingiverse page, so maybe it will drive a few sales

626Pilot, have you had a chance to try the flexible filament with your extruder placement on the arms?

Nah, I never tried it.