Welcome to the SeeMeCNC Community

Firstly, a little comment on terminology. While searching for new filament drivers (see below) I used the common term "extruder" for my searches. Of course it turns up everything. I've seen some companies and people use the following terms and I'm going to start using these myself as they are clear about what you mean:

• hot end - for the, well, hot end
• cold end - the cold zone above the hot end
• filament driver - the stepper-driven device that pushes the filament
• extruder - the hot end, cold end and the filament driver

Ok! Now on to the real post.

I've been looking for a filament driver that has enough muscle to reliably push filament through the maze-like hot end of the Cyclops. Each of the two filaments makes two 90° turns in the hot end on this extruder. While this does minimize oozing and color bleeding and results in a pretty short color change-over, it does make demands on the filament driver. Although I've modified all of my ezStruders with all the upgrades posted in this forum, including geared steppers, continuously supported filament path, etc, they occasionally hiccup with the Cyclops. They handle every hot end I've thrown at them but Cyclops is unique.

I researched a lot of options but of course it is very difficult to determine if a device will actually work for your application. After lots of discussions with vendors and other users I decided to give the new Bondtech QR filament drivers a try. These devices have two cogged gears that are both driven by the stepper. This is similar to the way SeeMeCNC's original Steves Extruder worked. It is a really compact little unit and the filament is completely supported on both sides of the gears. Pricy but if they work as well as claimed they will be worth the expense. I'm dangerously close to being able to print fly reels in two colors or some special designs and just need a little more reliability. Of course I post back once I've worked with them for awhile.

The developer, Martin, actually created a "kit" for me that does not include the geared steppers so I can reuse mine. Saves a little money also. The business end is pre-assembled.

My short list included the Bondtech QR, the Bulldog XL and the Micron 3DP Cobra or "all-metal" filament driver.

Let us know how your testing goes! I've been looking at this myself.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc6wg0DOW3w[/youtube]

My BondTech QR extruders arrived last week. I mounted them up on my Taz printer - which I use for experiments like this since it's easy to print mounts and adapters for and easy access via the front.

For this print I took a guess at slicing parameters. I couldn't be happier with a first effort. This bronze colored PLA filament is very picky - it shows every extrusion flaw (something to do with its reflectivity I think). The part in hand looks fantastic.
[img]https://forum.lulzbot.com/download/file ... &mode=view[/img]
[img]https://forum.lulzbot.com/download/file ... &mode=view[/img]

This was sliced with KISSslicer 1.5 beta 2.20 on OS X for my Lulzpot Taz 4 printer with a Cyclops dual hot end (2 filaments in-1 nozzle out). 1.75mm PLA filament. Here's the basics:

.2mm layers
.4mm extrusion width (.4mm nozzle)
3 loops/perimeters printed inside to outside
.6mm skin
33% straight infill
3mm prime and suck (retract)at 25mm/s
5mm wipe
205°C temp / 55°C heated bed on PEI print surface
Printed at 40mm/s, first layer at 22mm/s

I'm very pleased with this first print. It won't be long and I'll be printing some really cool two color wheels.

The BondTech QR extruders are fantastic. Firstly, it's hard to believe they are printed. Martin prints them in Nylon and laser sinters and paints them. They look and feel great. The design and fit & finish is superb. This is the easiest loading extruder I've owned, it loads first time, every time. It has two drive gears/cogs like the original Steve's extruder. There is only one way for the filament to go - out the the bottom! Seriously, it is impossible to stop the filament from moving. I've got about 25 hours of printing on them now through the Cyclops (a challenging hot end due to having two 90° bends in each filament path) and they've been flawless.

Here's the next thing I'm working on, a technique to print logos and inscriptions in 2 colors on my 3D printed fly reels using the E3D Cyclops 2 color switching hot end and BondTech QR extruders. I've dreamed about being able to do this for several years and figured out the design and slicing to pull it off but I've not had the ability to actually print it until now. This is a first attempt and is about 95% of the way there. Just a few refinements and it should be ready to go. This one is done in translucent smoke PLA in clear PLA. The logo is three .2mm thick layers. The next version will have a single clear layer on the surface completely encapsulating the logo.

[img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-s9qE ... er%2B5.jpg[/img]

Very cool results! I, too, like the bondtech design. I'm thinking of ways to remotely drive a bondtech (or bondtech like extruder) so the steppers can be off the effector. But I want to run my ideas past some people to idiot-check them, to make sure I'm not missing something obvious, before I say too much.

That logo print looks great!

If you like that one Brian, look at this hot off the printer (literally!)

I'm really excited. I conceived this design/process over a year ago and until today have not been able to actually print anything that meets my quality expectations. This logo is encapsulated completely inside the transparent PLA. There is one .2mm layer of clear printed first then the 3 layers of the logo in smoke black translucent PLA are printed along with infill of the clear and then the entire back is infilled in clear PLA to make a 7mm thick disk. This will be the back side of a fly fishing reel with the customer's logo (natureboydesigns.com) embedded. It looks spectacular in person.

[img]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0B8O ... er%2B6.jpg[/img]

This is by far the most challenging thing I've printed and it came out better than I imagined. Perseverance pays off!

Note the subtle difference between this photo and the one above. That single .2mm layer of clear over the logo makes it glow.

sliced in s3d?

No, KISS. Although in theory S3D should be able to do this but in practice it doesn't handle switching filament well - an issue reported by a few people. I thought I found a workaround but it simply left a blob in a bad place. KISS did a good job first time.

Oddly, even if I use the same temps and retracts S3D strings and leaves blobs too. I've looked at the gcode and it is obvious why but not obvious how to change it.

did you see this tip of the day? it has some stuff to add custom tool change type lines.

https://forum.simplify3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1959

Yes but unfortunately it doesn't help this situation. The easiest way to describe it is that S3D does not recognize an extruder change when switch extruders between perimeters/shells and infill.

Do you use a prime tower to acomodate the color change on the Cyclops?
I only have a Diamond hotend here which may have a larger volume to purge at the color change than the cyclops, but the issue I had with Kiss is I couldn't get a large enough prime tower for the color change. Though my copy is a bit out of date and the prime tower might have changed.
I can't remember what limitation I ran into on Cura, but S3D just has issues in general with multiple extruders, the logic for which one to retract/prime between the print and the prime tower is just plain broken.

On KISS, the prime tower is fixed size so that could be an issue. But if you use a wall, it will mist likely have enough length to purge. But that slows down the print so I use a short wall since I only need to do this cold change over the first 4 layers. I've tried pillar and wall in S3D and there is no problem with the purge and color change. The issue is that it strings horribly moving to/from the pillar or wall. Nothing I've tried fixes that. I saw your post with no replies on the S3D forum. That's the issue I have too. I find their forum very uninviting and try not to post there unless I'm desperate.

Yeah I just couldn't figure out anyway to get the retraction behavior I wanted between the pillar and the print in S3D.
On the plus side they actually let that post of mine onto the boards, my other (none of which were overly critical) posts all never made it through "approval", their support is far from reasonable IMO.

I'll try the wall and see if I can get it working, I really like the concept of these single orifice, multi color hotends.

You should get the latest beta (from this summer) of KiSS. As simple as it is, it really produces clean multi color parts. I just wish I could convince Jonathan to work with me to make real company around KISS. It would blow the others out of the water with just a bit of work.

I'm just lazy, the version I have works or what I was doing with it, but your picture has inspired me to download a new version.
I tend to agree, I still think Kiss is the best of the available Slicers (I own it and S3D) and it's almost always where I start.
All it really needs to compete with the likes of S3D as a commercial product is a UI refresh. The off putting thing for most users was the terminology coming from other slicers since Jonathan didn't work with RepRaps.

I just ordered a BondTech QR
http://shop.bondtech.se/ec/extruders/
Looking forward to a reliable and strong filament driver!

I've got almost 100 hrs on them now - all through the Cyclops hot end and NO hiccups whatsoever. Did you get yours with or without the geared stepper?

Cheers

What have you ordered for a mount?

I have 2 QRs on my Taz 4 and it turns out that Martin had just designed a mount to hold 2 QRs for the Taz!

Now that I'm converting all my printers to QRs I am designing a mount for the Rostock. I literally just finished the CAD for the prototype. The goal is to have it a direct replacement for the ezStruder mounting holes on the top plate. Of course I have a V1 but I think the V2s are the same.

I ordered it with geared stepper and the standard universal mount. I plan on bolting in to the frame side plate of my Nemesis 3D Air Delta.

So I'll post some tips on the QRs that might help in a separate post so we can stickify it.

I also ordered the Bondtech QR and even though I know it is a great extruder their are a couple of comments that I must make.
To have the Bondtech insignia to be oriented so that it is not upside down, the output of Bondtech QR should have one of the aluminum adapters they make
that accepts a pressed in Bowden connector.
The Bondtech QR by default comes without the adapter and is designed to be direct connected to the hotend.
I just felt that this should be pointed out to save someone of making the same mistake of not ordering the adapter and the special Bowden adapter when
buying the Bondtech QR.

If you order on the BondTech site, it is pointed out that you need the adapter for Bowden usage. I can't speak for the US distributor as I have not looked at their site.

None of the insignias are upside down on mine, is yours?